New Liason elections on official launch?

[Tweek]

[vortmax]

[Eleri]

Note that the Liaisons, near the end of the first term, made a suggestion to the community about not holding new elections until Live was fully launched, so that the role of Liaisons could be completely clarified by the existing team and ready to go, and new elections could be held using the entire MO community. There was even a widely circulated poll with several potential options.

We were *CRUCIFIED* for that suggestion. How dare we try to extend our terms, how dare we try to grab power like that! For SHAME!

So another election was held, late, with a different voting structure than the community initially agreed upon because the tech wasn't there and someone had to step up and cover the gap. The elections were advertised over multiple websites in multiple languages, in an effort to make sure that EVERYONE knew, and EVERYONE could vote.

The results? Voter turnout was abbysmal, no one cared, and you got the same 5 people that people were panic about having their 'power base' extended. Who are now experiencing the exact problems they were concerned about, with not having a clear direction for the position in Live, and communication about the Liaisons at a minimum.
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KI#68241
Eleri Underground Blog

[BladeLakem]

[vortmax]

Blade, we were planning to keep having OOC Town Hall meetings with Cyan and GameTap people when possible. However, everyone's been oh so busy, as usual...
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NEW Live KI: 89219 | Vortmax.org | Journeys in D'ni (my blog)

[Whilyam]

[Zardoz]

[CAGrayWolf]

[Butch]

I'm reading this thread and I really just have to ask a couple of questions.

What kind of organizational structure would like Cyan to spoon feed us through the game?

Do we want MOUL to be the kind of game where the developer creates an synthetic org structure with non-player leaders directing the story?
Do we want the be the kind of game where a group of players selected by the developers is sworn to secrecy (but everyone knows everything about anyway because someone spent all their time trying to figure it out) and then we can really complain about the elite few?

Come on, Cyan did us a favor. They came to us IC, and asked us to help decide how we were going to help move this game into the future.

Yes, it seemed really confusing. I know I misunderstood what was going on when a DRC member showed up and asked that we pick some of our own people to help them interface with us. And someone was nice enough to remind me that it was the DRC that asked, not Cyan. Sutherland, not anyone from Cyan. And then I got it. We were being invited to PLAY THIS GAME HOW CYAN THOUGHT IT COULD BE PLAYED. Isn't this why we are all here?

Some of us here have been at this game for a long time, and guess what, it is a game. A lot of us are here not because this is a game that spoonfeeds its players. Cyan did not do that with the standalone Myst games, and I'm paying my money because I do not believe that they will spoonfeed me now, or in the future.

As a community we seemed to come to an agreement that the position was going to be a fairly short term, shorter than I thought we should, and we even tried to second guess that when that term was coming to a close.

Now here we are, second guessing ourselves again. And we seem to be using those that are just coming along for the ride in order to do it.

How many of you complaining about the Liaisons voted the in the second election?

If this game had been live for the past 3 years, how many of you just finding the game would be trying to figure out this player community as it is? And I don't know, is it really any better out there in other games?

Let's not second guess the ONLY way that we have organized ourselves. Why can't we build on the organization without having to take sides?

MOUL does not have to be about individual accomplishments. The mechanics of the game just do not support it. The setting and what we think we know of the story do not support it either.

Cyan is going to approach player characters at different points in the game, under a number of different guises. Some of these player charactersare going to be specifically targeted because someone believes that the way those characters has been played will help further this or that storyline. And sometime characters will be selected to get a bit of information just by dumb luck, being in the right place at the right time.

We need organization and leadership from within the players and within the characters in this game. And the DRCL can very much be a part of this. But where is our organization. I haven't heard of any proposals yet.

I believed that we did not need to hold the second election, but we decided when this started that it was going to be 6 months. Take it or leave it. We did what we said we would do. The Liaisons did what they told us they would do. They have gone out and tried. They did not hide in their own sites, or the DRCL website, or even just right here.

Did the DRCL go out and organize the explorers? No. Why? NOT THEIR JOB.

Did any of us go out and try to organize the community? A few did, but may have found that everyone ran back to the existing large groups, and waited to be feed information. I tried to get my DRC hood together after the original DRCL announcement because I knew there were new people.
They were all already at GOG. There was already a conversation.
So I went to the city to see what people were saying, and was told that nobody there cared.

How many of us went out and tried to build on the existing community?

Here's a proposal. Why not use the time we have before the next DRCL election figuring out how we are going to organize to make sure the DRCL know the voice of the explorers?
Let's get the and hood to send representatives to an all explorer URU, a gathering. Let each organization and hood decide to send one person. And for those of us who are unaligned or in solo explorer private hoods, let's get all of us who are willing together and pick unaligned reps. And let's have the larger orgs and hoods help organize and support those who are not part of an organization or hood.

Then let's get an agenda together and work with the DRCL to get a platform together, a real open forum. Rather than blame DRCL for things we don't like about our community, let's have some action.


We need some kind of organization. IC, Cate Alexander, if played right, is going to play us all against each other and eat us alive. We need some organization because we are quickly opening our community to people who will not understand our style and our game and our setting.

Either line up behind one of the existing suggestions or present one that WILL WORK BETTER.

Alone or Together. . .We will rise or we will FALL.

Added as a thought later:
If you have a problem with the DRCL, why not organize a group of people who know believe the same you do, and INVITE DRCL to a meeting in your hood? Then you will have made an honest attempt to work with DRCL and can judge them by the results of that action.

[vortmax]

Butch, thank you. You have expressed something I've been trying to say for months now, in words I could never think up.

I have said, over and over, tell us what you want. We will listen. We will consider. We will try to make it happen if it is at all possible. Don't just complain, do something! Give us ideas!

And Butch, you have outlined a beautiful way to do that. Get organized! Get together, discuss things, come up with plans, bring us suggestions, tell us what you want from the DRC. Not just "more information, more Ages, more areas". They know that already, and will release things as fast as possible. Not "Where's Phil? Where's Watson?" They know we want that info, and they'll give it to us if/when they find out and/or are ready. Come up with new things! You have a direct line to the DRC through us, and that's a direct line to influence how things go forward.

We try to pick up opinions and thoughts and ideas anywhere we go, even if we're not doing something "official". When we say "the community thinks this", it's what we've picked up from those around us. Of course, this is a small sample of the community, but it's all we hear. But imagine if we were an organized group! Our voice would be loud, echoing out across the Cavern, instead of a million voices screaming for a million different things. And it would be easy to set up through existing groups, and through new groups. Nobody has to leave home, just make your home a part of the larger voice.

Nobody says we must always agree on everything either. But imagine if we came up with a few things at a time to work on, putting together the big concerns of all groups, into this one larger voice. As those concerns are addressed, we can move onto others, again influencing the direction of things, to make things better for all of us.

However you decide to organize yourselves, do it. Do something. Get started now. The Restoration moves ever forward, and we're quickly being left behind. Don't lose this chance while we have it.
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NEW Live KI: 89219 | Vortmax.org | Journeys in D'ni (my blog)

[Astarte]

*pssst* Between you and me?? I voted in both elections.

I don't consider myself being 'spoonfed' by the DRC.

I very much enjoy the idea of them being incavern. 'Living' and 'working' there, amongst the rest of us. I love running into the occasional ResEng, too.

I don't know, but with them being there I can find myself slipping into the idea of it (almost) being real, and isn't that what it's supposed to be about??? Total immersion in that cavern realm??

The town halls didn't do it for me, and I don't know that they ever will, with their tightly controlled structure, there is no naturalness to them. None of the usual happy chatter of excited explorers, just a cut and dried 'manufactured' feel to them. I know it's not just me who's felt that way, but, as always, I speak only for me here.

I doubt that I will ever be 'IC compliant', as one poster put it someplace, but I enjoy this aspect of the game, interacting as who I am, not living vicariously through some character I'm forced to create in order to participate ingame, but as ME in all my humaness.

I don't need my data 'spoonfed' to me by the liaisons either, which is what is seems like TO ME, with the very tightly controlled meetings, and the neatly edited chatlogs, which, really, the chat is so controlled they really don't need to be edited anyway. I ENJOY getting it from the DRC themselves, either by gathering the bits they leave here for me to find, or incavern actually talking to them, or, if I miss anything, head to the MystOnline website to read the numerous, untouched in all their glory, chatlogs of the lucky explorers who did happen upon the DRC members.

Why get my DRC chatlog fix there??? Because this is not a friendly forum to come to, not in any way. I once got told that coming here is like going to the docks on a drunken Saturday night, you just know that when you go there you are gonna' get beaten up. And they weren't kidding!!!

When Cate was introduced (and you can tell by her KI # that she's been in the wings for a while now ) they showed up in a hood and had a great impromptu-ish open meeting in the auditorium. It was so great and I can't wait for more of that. My enthusiasm has grown in leaps and bounds since things have been like this and it's not just me either, if the threads on the other forums are anything to go by. And thank goodness, as I'd all but given up on ever getting back into the storyline.

Maybe there's a way for the best of both worlds, for those who are attached to the liaisons as information dispensers, but for me, I'm liking this way of finding things out, and truly hope it continues like this, for me anyway.

I realize that this is probably not what liaisons may want to hear, but I'm being as honest as I can here, and this is how I feel and this works .... for me anyway.

Astarte
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"From the ashes of the great fire in the Temple of the Moon Dove, a vision is reborn ...... "

[BladeLakem]

[Butch]

Great, another one of less than 300 who did vote the second time, if I remember the count correctly. I was surprised that not more of us did vote.
Allow me to personally thank you and everyone else who voted the second time around.
The opportunities for individual Explorers to actually participate in a real community-wide event to help direct the future of our role in D'ni is not an every day event.

Can I say something about the U-R-U concept? Right now I'm sitting here typing this on one computer. On another screen I am looking at a character who is nominally speaking me sitting in my Relto hut waiting for me to become him. The U-R-U play concept is easy to say, but is really "You-As-You, in the cavern." But that doesn't look as nice on a four-color glossy.
But as story elements are going to happen 24x7, for all we know, that is, how can I, a fellow Explorer, help you enjoy the game? That's really all any of us can do. The DRC, ResEng, and any other non-player characters are 'Digital Actors,' if I remember the term correctly. And everyone does have the right to interact with the fiction of D'ni within the confines of the story and the game mechanics. And I think that leaves a lot of room for everyone.

But back to the point I was trying to make. This thread is a movement within the Explorer community to undo something that you, I and a small number of Explorers have done. We picked DRCL. We picked them twice. We had our chance, and those of us in the cavern at that time choose to vote or not to vote, and let those that vote have their say.
The town halls happened in both terms, and yet I remember none of the candidates in the last election say we need to do away with the town halls. And the format, well, that's just the format that was used. I'd hate to see what would have happened with everyone just yelling questions like it was IRC.

The term was six months. March is the next vote, assuming the community does not fail, and I'm doing the math right.

So, I guess it is time to put my action where my rhetoric is. Let's have an Explorer-only gathering this weekend. Not a town hall, but a gathering. A gathering with a purpose.

I want to invite all interested explorers to join me somewhere in the cavern, and let's talk about how we can organize the unorganized and move forward this community. Let's talk about how to best use the time till the next election to GET SOMETHING GOING.

I'm not a Liaison, nor do I want the job. I'm not part of some major org or big neighborhood, nor am I sure I want to be part of one. I'm looking for power or game information in advance. I'm trying to do what I can to make sure my money is being spent in a way that entertains me. I WANT TO PLAY THIS GAME.

So, where can we meet?
Personally, I like the Gallery, but that's just not practical.
Suggestions? Anyone got a spare hood that stays public we can borrow?
When? I like Saturday, noon EST.
We'll run it like a real meeting, where people put ideas on the table and talk about them.
Oh, there will be rules. just like a real meeting on the surface. It won't be about the game, it will be about the community. I can give 2 hours of my time to host a meeting. I'll post the agenda here and on MOUL Wednesday, 9pm.

Anyone care to help me with this?

[Kam]

Vortmax '07!!!

[Rusty_Russell]

The Institution 'hood is public if you want to use it. (It's mine arising out of Ubisoft URU fan fiction).

PS I voted at both elections