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ghaelen
Joined: 28 Feb 2006
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 Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:20 am Post subject: DRC Stealth KI's (to get to our Reltos)? |
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This is from the "Activity in the Cavern" Thread. I remembered seeing this as I was noting my first "open" trip back down to the Cavern. It really bothers me and I'm not sure why.
| Mac_Fife wrote: | | Tai'lahr wrote: | | ghaelen wrote: | | Dr. Watson is ok. He gets it, I think. Not sure about the rest. |
I don't know about Laxman, but I think Marie and Kodama do, now. |
I agree with Tai'lahr's interpretation: The whole demeanor of then both has changed, probably now that they are relieved of the pressures of opening new ages for explorers, satisfying benefactors, etc. They genuinely seemed to enjoy being in the Cavern and being around explorers.
Both Marie and Kodama were using what I can only describe as "stealth KIs" that wouldn't show on our own KIs, but I believe that was because they didn't know who or what to expect when they arrived. They certainly weren't trying to stay out of sight, and seemed to be actively seeking out groups of explorers to talk with (and I mean "with", not "to" or "at").
On Sunday, we wanted to show Marie something we'd noticed in EthanEver's Teledahn: Because these "stealth KIs" wouldn't allow a conventional invite to be sent, Marie used a trick that Victor Laxman had apparently shown her to link directly to Ethan's Relto where she could then use Ethan's Teledahn book. We ended up with quite a gang there, and it was great fun. I don't think the old "DRC Marie" would ever have gone along so readily. |
I don't know about this. Am I missing something here? What were they doing with those stealth KI's before we knew that they knew we were still going down there? If they didn't know we were there, why develop stealth KI's at all?
One interpretation: It's ok that explorers are in the Cavern now, now that Victor and Marie can get anywhere, even into an explorer's Relto. That way they can keep up with whatever it is we are doing, even privately.
Another Interpretation: It really isn't OK that explorers are in the cavern, and the DRC hasn't been able to find a way to keep them out, so the use of a stealth KI will allow them to figure how we get in and they plan to seal those openings when and as they can.
The question I have is this: are they planning to continue using those stealth KI's?
Edit: modified the title to better reflect the issue I have with this.
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Last edited by ghaelen on Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:18 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Tweek
Joined: 22 Dec 2005
Location: Ae'Gura
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:30 am Post subject: |
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DRC have had stealth KI's since they've pretty much been down in the cavern.
Nick White had one as well back in 07.
Some people like peace and quiet when exploring.
I read the reports of Marie showing up in someones Relto apparently uninvited, seems odd, given that you need a book to link (most of the time, and the user had the book and according to the reports Marie didn't), kinda goes against the principles of Linking otherwise.
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ghaelen
Joined: 28 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:22 am Post subject: |
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Note: I modified the title to clarify the issue I have.
| Tweek wrote: | | DRC have had stealth KI's since they've pretty much been down in the cavern. |
Yes, this we've known. Might not like it, but we know it.
quoting Tweek
| Quote: | | I read the reports of Marie showing up in someones Relto apparently uninvited, seems odd, given that you need a book to link (most of the time, and the user had the book and according to the reports Marie didn't), kinda goes against the principles of Linking otherwise. |
This is more to the point I was making. There is something discomfiting about knowing someone can simply 'arrive' at any time. I like to have a choice.
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Dalken
Joined: 03 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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As nice as privacy is and everything, I already know from personal experience that the Bahro can also show up in our Reltos uninvited at any time that they wish. While the one that I met seemed rather friendly, I think I rather like the idea of someone else being able to get to my Relto should a less-friendly one show up.
That said, I'm not sure how the heck they could get a KI to give someone a link to anyone's Relto. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe any version of Relto was ever kept in the Nexus; therefore, it would seem rather implausible that a link to Relto in any form could be made using the KI.
Of course, on both cases I'm far from any type of expert here. It's just a thought.
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Unless otherwise stated, opinions expressed are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organization of which I am a member. |
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Mac_Fife
Joined: 17 Jan 2010
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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I need to clarify a couple of things here:
I never suggested that the "Stealth KI" had anything to with being able to link to someone else's Relto; the objective was to get to Teledahn and the lack of a KI number made it impossible to send an invite and use the Nexus, so using Relto as an intermediate point is the only thing to link "KI" with "Relto".
As it happens, I already had an invite for Ethan's Teledahn, so I was heading to the Takotah Alley Nexus terminal when I heard Marie make the comment about using some trick she'd been shown to get to Ethan's Relto instead. I linked out and carried on to Teledahn, so I didn't see what the trick was, but after a minute or so people started arriving, Marie being one of the last to arrive.
It may well be that the "trick" was simply to have Ethan share his Relto book. Maybe that's novelty enough for the old DRC? I don't know. I'd need to ask the others who left after me what happened, but none of them really remarked on anything "unusual" occuring.
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Gondar
Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Location: Lurking in the cavern...
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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Ethan, in the center of discussion of 'unusual tricks'? Impossible! 
Without confirmation though it could be possible they linked it to the nexus. I mean, we can already use the nexus to link us directly to someone's instance of an age, right? It's doubtful they keep adding modified linking books to each instance, so the only theory is Yeesha did something to let the GZ use one of the pre-stored linking books with some trick or two to get in. Therefore, all she'd have to have done is to add and modify a relto book. Tada, anyone you invite can go right to relto.
It's no better or worse than people getting into your other ages, it only works by invite anyways. Well, except for bahro, but any creature that can link at will to instances is hardly going to be kept out by a KI. 
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IanWatson
Joined: 13 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Dalken wrote: | As nice as privacy is and everything, I already know from personal experience that the Bahro can also show up in our Reltos uninvited at any time that they wish. While the one that I met seemed rather friendly, I think I rather like the idea of someone else being able to get to my Relto should a less-friendly one show up.
That said, I'm not sure how the heck they could get a KI to give someone a link to anyone's Relto. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe any version of Relto was ever kept in the Nexus; therefore, it would seem rather implausible that a link to Relto in any form could be made using the KI.
Of course, on both cases I'm far from any type of expert here. It's just a thought. |
It's been noted, particularly among the ResEngs, that the DRC has KIs which have the ability to Link to the location of any other KI, or even Link another KI user to the DRC member's location.
It's simple enough to extrapolate that the Lattice probably keeps a record of the places each KI has been. All Marie had to do was look up the "signature" of whichever non-DRC Age that EthanEver had visited most frequently, figured that would be his Relto, and Linked.
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Gondar
Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Location: Lurking in the cavern...
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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True, but the note is that others arrived there.. can the special KIs induce linking in others?
I really figure invites to relto is the easiest solution..
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Tweek
Joined: 22 Dec 2005
Location: Ae'Gura
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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Linking KI's? they're communication devices for Keraths sake..
The D'ni had a history of being rigid in their Linking tech, the smallest Books we know about are made of stone and go in the maintainer suits..
I'm sorry, I just find it difficult to believe that the D'ni developed linking abilities in a communication device that hadn't even made it to the the great population before D'ni fell..
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ghaelen
Joined: 28 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Dalken wrote: | | As nice as privacy is and everything, I already know from personal experience that the Bahro can also show up in our Reltos uninvited at any time that they wish. While the one that I met seemed rather friendly, I think I rather like the idea of someone else being able to get to my Relto should a less-friendly one show up. |
Bahro I get. Bahro could have come and gone and destroyed and constructed anything they wanted to. They are travelers, in a way, and that traveling is part of their psyche. They would have their own protocol for "linking where unwelcome" or would not be so private as some humans are. One Bahro will not be at a disadvantage to another, at least not where linking at will is concerned.
Humans with new secret tools or abilities are different. A new tool give one an advantage. We find a way to cross boundaries and often we do just because we can. We don't live in a "link where you will" society, we have barriers, fences, gates (e.g. Cavern Entrance Gate) and we respect them often only because we can't cross them. A Bahro arrival would mean something in their world's protocol made my space or my person or my portables interesting to them. But I wouldn't feel as though my privacy were violated, nor do I believe they are dangerous to us in general. However, if a DRC member showed up I would know they still felt they had some kind of authority over me which gives them a right to invade my space unannounced and uninvited. I would feel angry, and rightfully so. The two are different.
quoting Ian Watson:
| Quote: | It's been noted, particularly among the ResEngs, that the DRC has KIs which have the ability to Link to the location of any other KI, or even Link another KI user to the DRC member's location.
It's simple enough to extrapolate that the Lattice probably keeps a record of the places each KI has been. All Marie had to do was look up the "signature" of whichever non-DRC Age that EthanEver had visited most frequently, figured that would be his Relto, and Linked. |
Very interesting. I hadn't given it much thought before, especially since I hadn't been able to spend much time in the Cavern. When I finally could, well, we weren't supposed to be there anyway.
| Quote: | | Linking KI's? they're communication devices for Keraths sake. |
Somehow, hearing this said in such a confident manner nevertheless leaves me unconvinced there is nothing more for any of us to know about DRC KI's. They didn't give me one, so I can't actually say all they do is communicate.
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vidkid7
Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Location: Orlando, FL
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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I deeply miss when we could look at a situation like this and say pretty matter-of-factly "That's impossible", as opposed to recent years where it seems like pretty much anyone can link as they please.
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Gondar
Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Location: Lurking in the cavern...
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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I blame Yeesha. 
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Aaaand we're back! Again! (once more.. funny how many times we've been back again now)
-Gondar "Muffincakes"
MOULa KI: #00027582
(Gone but risen again!) Live KI #00138429
(for posterity) D'mala KI: 00098261 |
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Mac_Fife
Joined: 17 Jan 2010
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:18 am Post subject: |
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| Gondar wrote: | | True, but the note is that others arrived there.. can the special KIs induce linking in others? |
Sorry, but again this is misunderstanding: I'm certain that the others either a) used an existing invite to Ethan's Teledahn, as I did (a few of us had been exploring Teledahn earlier), or b) were invited to use Ethan's Relto book and then from there used his Teledahn book.
| IanWatson wrote: | | It's simple enough to extrapolate that the Lattice probably keeps a record of the places each KI has been. All Marie had to do was look up the "signature" of whichever non-DRC Age that EthanEver had visited most frequently, figured that would be his Relto, and Linked. |
I don't know - it seems a bit hit-and-miss even if it were possible: If someone has been pellet dropping regularly, then Er'cana and the silo might appear as the most frequently visited locations. It seems more likely that Marie simply followed option b) along with most of the others that were present. The comment about a "trick" may have been a throw away line - a red herring.
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Ian Atrus
Joined: 23 Dec 2005
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:21 am Post subject: |
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Blaming Yeesha's always good. The KIs however are D'ni tech, not Bahro; if they could link by themselves why go through all the hassle of building the Nexus in the first place? Marie's new trick was probably new to her, but an old one for Vic and the ResEngs.
Two days into a new Uru and we're at this again? Don't IC the gameplay limitations, kids! It's bad for your health and the environment! 
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Ahnotahm - a Cavern blog
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Erik
Joined: 08 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:35 am Post subject: |
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I don't believe the KI has anything to do with linking. Supposedly the DRC KI's can be invisible... well, I'm not surprised considering all the other D'ni technology. But I don't believe in a KI that can link...
Perhaps KI's can have the Nexus give them exactly the Book they want, but that also seems unlikely to me. It's just an invisibility mode, nothing more, nothing less.
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